by Rasheed

Elamo-Harappan origins for Haplogroup J2 in India?

The presence of Haplogroup J2 in India, including the subclades M410 and M241 has been an often overlooked clue to the origins of M172. Sengupta et al, in 2005 worked to explain the presence of M172 in India.

Their paper provides an immediate acknowledgement of the proposed spread of proto-Elamo-Dravidian speaking peoples into India originating from the Indus Valley and southwest Persia. The idea that M172 may have been carried into India with proto-Elamo-Dravidian groups is supported by the frequencies of Haplogroup J in one of the only remaining Dravidian Speaking ethnic groups in the Iranian Plateau, the Brahui.((( 28% of the Brahui, an ethnic Dravidian speaking group from Western Pakistan were found to carry the mutation defining Haplogroup J.)))

Overall Haplogroup J2 in India represented 9.1% of this very populous nation. In Pakistan, M172 accounted for 11.9% of the Y-Chromosomes typed.

Sengupta's paper broke down the frequencies of Haplogroup J2 into various caste and language groups. J2 was found to be significantly higher among Dravidian castes at 19% than among Indo-European castes at 11%.

J2a-M410 in particular may be a strong candidate for a proposed migration of proto-Dravidian peoples from the Iranian Plateau or the Indus Valley since J2a M410 is a very high component of the haplogroup J2 chromosomes found in Pakistan. Over 71% of the M172 found in Pakistan was M410+.

Another interesting characteristic in the distribution of M172 and more specifically, M410, in India was its higher frequencies in Upper Caste Dravidians.

M410+ chromosomes were found in 13% of Upper Caste Dravidians. Sengupta goes on to suggest an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers but from a Y chromosome perspective, the paper seems to acknowledge M172 arriving in India from Middle Eastern and Indus Valley Civilizations.

Info below is separate from above. The above I got from a dna site type in the title and copy and paste u will get the info(site)

From: ellen Levy

Subject: Dravidians & Indo-Iranians: J and R1a1

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:09:24 -0700 (PDT)

Since there were recent postings about (Dravidians) and

some confusion about the "natives of India" (not

really sure what this means anyway), I thought I'd

post the following: there is a connection between

Y-chromosome haplogroup J and Western Eurasian MtDNA

(groups H,I,J,T,X,U1-4, U5)with the spread of the

Dravidian language. The Dravidian language is only

spoken today in parts of India and Sri Lanka.

Researchers have traced the origins of Y-chromosome

Haplogroup J to the southeastern Caspian region and

Zagros Mountains (see the study: "Y-chromosome

Lineages Trace Diffusion of People & Languages in

Southwestern Asia," by Lluis Quintana-Murci, et al).

From there, is spread over the Iranian Plateau, and

with decreasing frequency, finally settled in India.

Another group of J went West, settling in Europe and

bringing the farming way of life with them.

The researchers found that the dispersal of this

haplogroup towards the Indus Valley is also associated

with the dispersal of the Dravidian languages.

Interestingly, in the study: "Deep Common Ancestry of

Indian and Western-Eurasian Mitochondrial DNA

Lineages," T. Kivisild, et al, the researchers also

found that the traditional Western Eurasian lineages

(found in ony 5.2% of Indians) and their general

spread all over India was "consistent with the arrival

to India of cereals domesticated in the Fertile


The studies then go one to note the apparent

distributions of Rla1, with it's very high frequencies

in Central Asia & Russia, low frequencies in the

Middle East, marked differences in East/West

distribution in Iran, and decreasing-frequency cline

towards India, supports the idea that Indo-European

speaking Rla1 populations later spread from Central

Asia into modern Iran and India (probably from Iran

into India, thus, the invaders were known as

"Indo-Iranians"). In fact, Rla1 is found all through

India, indicating this haplogroup spread over a vast

area. In Iran, their Indo-European language replaced

Dravidian (or Elamite as it is was known in Iran), and

it replaced many of the Dravidian tongues in India as


So it appears that Rla, which is found in about 12% of

Turks, Kurds and Syrians, did migrate in two different

directions - one migration apparently took this group

into Europe, particularly Russia, Eastern Europe &

Scandinavia, while a second migration route took them

into parts of the Caucasus & Middle East. I assume

the domestication of the horse made these large scale

migrations possible.

This pattern of haplogroup migrations and associated

linguistic connections is supported by the findings of

the Brahui people, who reside in central Baluchistan.

They are one of the few populations outside India and

Sri Lanka that continue to speak a Dravidian-derived

language. The Brahui(dravidians) have a very high percentage

(55%) of western Eurasian MtDNAs, closely matching

populations in Iran and Anatolia. It is believed the

Brahui are the northern survivors of a once vast and

ancient Dravidian-speaking region that was later

displaced by the Indo-European migrations.

Ellen Coffman

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